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Was removing major version from apache module a mistake?

php.internals

Dan Muey

5 years ago

Hello,

Was removing the major version from apache module done on purpose or did it just kind of happen (kind of feels like an afterthought since it isn’t listed under “Backward Incompatible Changes”)?

We ask because cPanel relies on the major-version pattern of the last 25 years and, while changing it in future versions is possible, it will be an expensive change and users on older versions will be left out in the cold. The situation it causes where similarly expressed by the first sentence in https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=78681 <https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=78681>

Any chance of reverting that change? If not, we’ll most likely be retiring DSO from PHP 8 on. I will send a link with more details later today in case it helps.

Thanks!

--
Dan Muey—cPanel

Dan Muey

5 years ago

> On Nov 10, 2020, at 2:21 PM, Dan Muey <dan@cpanel.net> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Was removing the major version from apache module done on purpose or did it just kind of happen (kind of feels like an afterthought since it isn’t listed under “Backward Incompatible Changes”)?
>
> We ask because cPanel relies on the major-version pattern of the last 25 years and, while changing it in future versions is possible, it will be an expensive change and users on older versions will be left out in the cold. The situation it causes where similarly expressed by the first sentence in https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=78681 <https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=78681>
>
> Any chance of reverting that change? If not, we’ll most likely be retiring DSO from PHP 8 on. I will send a link with more details later today in case it helps.

Here is that link I promised that contains more details:

https://github.com/CpanelInc/ea-php80/blob/master/DESIGN.dso.md <https://github.com/CpanelInc/ea-php80/blob/master/DESIGN.dso.md>

Thanks 👍

Christoph Becker

5 years ago

On 17.11.2020 at 15:23, Dan Muey wrote:

>> On Nov 10, 2020, at 2:21 PM, Dan Muey <dan@cpanel.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Was removing the major version from apache module done on purpose or did it just kind of happen (kind of feels like an afterthought since it isn’t listed under “Backward Incompatible Changes”)?
>>
>> We ask because cPanel relies on the major-version pattern of the last 25 years and, while changing it in future versions is possible, it will be an expensive change and users on older versions will be left out in the cold. The situation it causes where similarly expressed by the first sentence in https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=78681 <https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=78681>
>>
>> Any chance of reverting that change? If not, we’ll most likely be retiring DSO from PHP 8 on. I will send a link with more details later today in case it helps.
>
> Here is that link I promised that contains more details:
>
> https://github.com/CpanelInc/ea-php80/blob/master/DESIGN.dso.md <https://github.com/CpanelInc/ea-php80/blob/master/DESIGN.dso.md>
>
> Thanks 👍

Thanks for pointing out this issue, and the details!

Since we're super late in the pre-release cycle, I don't know what to
say.  Maybe the PHP 8 release managers want to weigh in?

Christoph

Dan Ackroyd

5 years ago

On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 20:22, Dan Muey <dan@cpanel.net> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> Was removing the major version from apache module done on purpose

It was done on purpose on 28 Jan 2019 https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/3769

Although it is annoying to have minor things like this change,
projects need to be able to correct small mistakes instead of leaving
them until the end of time.

From elsewhere:

> Conclusion Let’s “Drop DSO in 8” for now, and if there is a large push to reinstate it, then
> revisit our options starting with the simpler “Patch PHP 8 to undo upstream’s change”.

Sounds good to me.

cheers
Dan
Ack

Nikita Popov

5 years ago

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 10:54 PM Dan Ackroyd <Danack@basereality.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 20:22, Dan Muey <dan@cpanel.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Was removing the major version from apache module done on purpose
>
> It was done on purpose on 28 Jan 2019
> https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/3769
>
> Although it is annoying to have minor things like this change,
> projects need to be able to correct small mistakes instead of leaving
> them until the end of time.
>
> From elsewhere:
> > Conclusion Let’s “Drop DSO in 8” for now, and if there is a large push
> to reinstate it, then
> > revisit our options starting with the simpler “Patch PHP 8 to undo
> upstream’s change”.
>
> Sounds good to me.
>
> cheers
> Dan
> Ack
>

FWIW, as the person who implemented the change, there was no very strong
reason to do it, it was just routine cleanup to drop major version numbers
in all places where they are not needed for technical reasons. (We used to
have hundreds of files that needed to be changed when the major version
number changed.)

If I had known at the time, or really at any point in the following one and
a half years, that this causes issues for cpanel, I would have simply
reverted the change, because it would be more trouble than it is worth.
However, as the issue only came up pretty late, many other projects will
have accounted for the new name by now and would be broken if we changed it
back.

Regards,
Nikita

Dan Muey

5 years ago

thanks Nikita, we didn’t notice until we went to build the beta and RC RPMs in prep for release.

We looked over the breaking changes list but I guess we didn’t read far enough down the entire changes list.

Dropping DSO is not a bad thing since there are so many other better ways to serve PHP.

> On Nov 18, 2020, at 4:04 PM, Nikita Popov <nikita.ppv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 10:54 PM Dan Ackroyd <Danack@basereality.com <mailto:Danack@basereality.com>> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 20:22, Dan Muey <dan@cpanel.net <mailto:dan@cpanel.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Was removing the major version from apache module done on purpose
>
> It was done on purpose on 28 Jan 2019 https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/3769 <https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/3769>
>
> Although it is annoying to have minor things like this change,
> projects need to be able to correct small mistakes instead of leaving
> them until the end of time.
>
> From elsewhere:
> > Conclusion Let’s “Drop DSO in 8” for now, and if there is a large push to reinstate it, then
> > revisit our options starting with the simpler “Patch PHP 8 to undo upstream’s change”.
>
> Sounds good to me.
>
> cheers
> Dan
> Ack
>
> FWIW, as the person who implemented the change, there was no very strong reason to do it, it was just routine cleanup to drop major version numbers in all places where they are not needed for technical reasons. (We used to have hundreds of files that needed to be changed when the major version number changed.)
>
> If I had known at the time, or really at any point in the following one and a half years, that this causes issues for cpanel, I would have simply reverted the change, because it would be more trouble than it is worth. However, as the issue only came up pretty late, many other projects will have accounted for the new name by now and would be broken if we changed it back.
>
> Regards,
> Nikita

--
Dan Muey➜cPanel::D3v::ZerØCool