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php.internals

Pierre

5 years ago

Hello,

I noticed I receive almost all your replies to the list along with a
duplicated copy addressed to me or other conversation participants, I
think you always click "reply to all" instead of "reply to list" in your
mail client.

I'm not angry all all, it happens a lot that I do the same error, but
please try to change your habits and click the correct action in your
mail client :) I'm myself desperately trying to remember to do so as well.

Best regards,

Pierre

Pierre

5 years ago

Le 15/02/2021 à 13:20, Pierre a écrit :

> Hello,
>
> I noticed I receive almost all your replies to the list along with a
> duplicated copy addressed to me or other conversation participants, I
> think you always click "reply to all" instead of "reply to list" in
> your mail client.
>
> I'm not angry all all, it happens a lot that I do the same error, but
> please try to change your habits and click the correct action in your
> mail client :) I'm myself desperately trying to remember to do so as
> well.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre
>

Oups I'm sorry I wanted to send it privately, I'm really sorry for the
noise (proof of what I'm saying upper, it's easy to reply to the wrong
recipient).

Regards,

--

Pierre

Alexandru Pătrănescu

5 years ago

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 2:20 PM Pierre <pierre-php@processus.org> wrote:

> I think you always click "reply to all" instead of "reply to list" in your
> mail client.
>

I'm interested in this topic as most email clients that I know don't have
such an option like "reply to list".

Instructions here clearly mention that reply to all should be used:
https://www.php.net/mailing-lists.php
<< Be sure to click Reply-All to reply to list. >>

Maybe the email server or client that you use should be able to understand
that the two email copies are the same email and show only once.

Regards,
Alex

Pierre

5 years ago

Le 15/02/2021 à 13:32, Alexandru Pătrănescu a écrit :

> On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 2:20 PM Pierre <pierre-php@processus.org> wrote:
>
> I'm interested in this topic as most email clients that I know don't have
> such an option like "reply to list".
>
> Instructions here clearly mention that reply to all should be used:
> https://www.php.net/mailing-lists.php
> << Be sure to click Reply-All to reply to list. >>
>
> Maybe the email server or client that you use should be able to understand
> that the two email copies are the same email and show only once.
>
> Regards,
> Alex
>

If you're interested, I'm using Thunderbird, it had this option since
the beginning of time. The hardest part is not forgetting it exists. In
a lot of open source mail clients you may find this option in the drop
down menus when right-clicking on a mail from a list. Some are smarter
and will reply properly to the list transparently when you click "reply"
(and not "reply to all").

I do not use any CLI mail clients, such as mutt or others, so I will not
be of any help about those.

Regards,

--

Pierre

Larry Garfield

5 years ago

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021, at 6:55 AM, Pierre wrote:

> Le 15/02/2021 à 13:32, Alexandru Pătrănescu a écrit :
> > On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 2:20 PM Pierre <pierre-php@processus.org> wrote:
> >
> > I'm interested in this topic as most email clients that I know don't have
> > such an option like "reply to list".
> >
> > Instructions here clearly mention that reply to all should be used:
> > https://www.php.net/mailing-lists.php
> > << Be sure to click Reply-All to reply to list. >>
> >
> > Maybe the email server or client that you use should be able to understand
> > that the two email copies are the same email and show only once.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alex
> >
> If you're interested, I'm using Thunderbird, it had this option since
> the beginning of time. The hardest part is not forgetting it exists. In
> a lot of open source mail clients you may find this option in the drop
> down menus when right-clicking on a mail from a list. Some are smarter
> and will reply properly to the list transparently when you click "reply"
> (and not "reply to all").
>
> I do not use any CLI mail clients, such as mutt or others, so I will not
> be of any help about those.

This is a long standing fight.  Who is in the wrong, mail clients that stupidly send double messages, or mail clients that stupidly can't detect and omit double messages?  Probably both, but the one that is really wrong is whatever someone else is using and you're not.  Because humans.

(Personally I'd blame the ones that lack reply-to-list, because that's the easier feature to include.)

Could we at least update that page to say "use the reply-to-list feature if available, or reply-all if not"?  Or something like that?  Because yeah, I'm also really sick of getting 2 copies of every email sent to every thread I ever touch. :-)

--Larry Garfield

Johannes Schlueter

5 years ago

On Mon, 2021-02-15 at 16:43 -0600, Larry Garfield wrote:

> This is a long standing fight.  Who is in the wrong, mail clients
> that stupidly send double messages, or mail clients that stupidly
> can't detect and omit double messages?  Probably both, but the one
> that is really wrong is whatever someone else is using and you're
> not.  Because humans.
>
> (Personally I'd blame the ones that lack reply-to-list, because
> that's the easier feature to include.)
>
> Could we at least update that page to say "use the reply-to-list
> feature if available, or reply-all if not"?  Or something like
> that?  Because yeah, I'm also really sick of getting 2 copies of
> every email sent to every thread I ever touch. :-)
>

I use the reply-to-all feature purposely (well, now I didn't :-D)

* I don't know if the sender is subscribed (with well-known names not
a problem, but not every sending a mail is necessarily subscribed)
* I don't know if everybody on the CC line i subscribed (be it an
individual or another list)
* As a recipient I have a different attention to a mail in the mailing
list folder (sorted by list-id headers) and the onein my inbox This
affects both responses and somebody CC'ing me

johannes

Christian Schneider

5 years ago

Am 15.02.2021 um 13:20 schrieb Pierre <pierre-php@processus.org>:

> I noticed I receive almost all your replies to the list along with a duplicated copy addressed to me or other conversation participants, I think you always click "reply to all" instead of "reply to list" in your mail client.

I think if our intention is that the default reply should go to the list then the mailing list should be configured to include a
Reply-To: "php internals" <internals@lists.php.net>
header which it currently does not, right?

This would make it harder to send a reply directly to the author (in some clients you have to click reply and then copy the address) but it would not depend on the reply-to-list feature not all mail clients have.

- Chris

Larry Garfield

5 years ago

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021, at 4:26 AM, Christian Schneider wrote:

> Am 15.02.2021 um 13:20 schrieb Pierre <pierre-php@processus.org>:
> > I noticed I receive almost all your replies to the list along with a duplicated copy addressed to me or other conversation participants, I think you always click "reply to all" instead of "reply to list" in your mail client.
>
> I think if our intention is that the default reply should go to the
> list then the mailing list should be configured to include a
> 	Reply-To: "php internals" <internals@lists.php.net>
> header which it currently does not, right?
>
> This would make it harder to send a reply directly to the author (in
> some clients you have to click reply and then copy the address) but it
> would not depend on the reply-to-list feature not all mail clients have.
>
> - Chris

+1 Endorse

--Larry Garfield

Ben Ramsey

5 years ago

> On Feb 23, 2021, at 09:21, Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021, at 4:26 AM, Christian Schneider wrote:
>> Am 15.02.2021 um 13:20 schrieb Pierre <pierre-php@processus.org>:
>>> I noticed I receive almost all your replies to the list along with a duplicated copy addressed to me or other conversation participants, I think you always click "reply to all" instead of "reply to list" in your mail client.
>>
>> I think if our intention is that the default reply should go to the
>> list then the mailing list should be configured to include a
>> 	Reply-To: "php internals" <internals@lists.php.net>
>> header which it currently does not, right?
>>
>> This would make it harder to send a reply directly to the author (in
>> some clients you have to click reply and then copy the address) but it
>> would not depend on the reply-to-list feature not all mail clients have.
>>
>> - Chris
>
> +1 Endorse

Also +1

I had no idea that it was double-sending messages to folks when I did reply-all. My mail client must filter the messages appropriately so that I only see one message, and I don’t have a reply-to-list option.

Cheers,
Ben

Chase Peeler

5 years ago

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 10:27 AM Ben Ramsey <ben@benramsey.com> wrote:

> > On Feb 23, 2021, at 09:21, Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021, at 4:26 AM, Christian Schneider wrote:
> >> Am 15.02.2021 um 13:20 schrieb Pierre <pierre-php@processus.org>:
> >>> I noticed I receive almost all your replies to the list along with a
> duplicated copy addressed to me or other conversation participants, I think
> you always click "reply to all" instead of "reply to list" in your mail
> client.
> >>
> >> I think if our intention is that the default reply should go to the
> >> list then the mailing list should be configured to include a
> >>      Reply-To: "php internals" <internals@lists.php.net>
> >> header which it currently does not, right?
> >>
> >> This would make it harder to send a reply directly to the author (in
> >> some clients you have to click reply and then copy the address) but it
> >> would not depend on the reply-to-list feature not all mail clients have.
> >>
> >> - Chris
> >
> > +1 Endorse
>
>
> Also +1
>
> I had no idea that it was double-sending messages to folks when I did
> reply-all. My mail client must filter the messages appropriately so that I
> only see one message, and I don’t have a reply-to-list option.
>
> Cheers,
> Ben
>
>
>

The gmail web client has the sender as the reply-to, and the list in the cc
(at least in this case). On the receiving side, I don't get duplicates, so
I assume gmail is smart about filtering those out.

--
Chase Peeler
chasepeeler@gmail.com

Kris Craig

5 years ago

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 7:30 AM Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 10:27 AM Ben Ramsey <ben@benramsey.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 23, 2021, at 09:21, Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021, at 4:26 AM, Christian Schneider wrote:
> > >> Am 15.02.2021 um 13:20 schrieb Pierre <pierre-php@processus.org>:
> > >>> I noticed I receive almost all your replies to the list along with a
> > duplicated copy addressed to me or other conversation participants, I
> think
> > you always click "reply to all" instead of "reply to list" in your mail
> > client.
> > >>
> > >> I think if our intention is that the default reply should go to the
> > >> list then the mailing list should be configured to include a
> > >>      Reply-To: "php internals" <internals@lists.php.net>
> > >> header which it currently does not, right?
> > >>
> > >> This would make it harder to send a reply directly to the author (in
> > >> some clients you have to click reply and then copy the address) but it
> > >> would not depend on the reply-to-list feature not all mail clients
> have.
> > >>
> > >> - Chris
> > >
> > > +1 Endorse
> >
> >
> > Also +1
> >
> > I had no idea that it was double-sending messages to folks when I did
> > reply-all. My mail client must filter the messages appropriately so that
> I
> > only see one message, and I don’t have a reply-to-list option.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Ben
> >
> >
> >
> The gmail web client has the sender as the reply-to, and the list in the cc
> (at least in this case). On the receiving side, I don't get duplicates, so
> I assume gmail is smart about filtering those out.
>
> --
> Chase Peeler
> chasepeeler@gmail.com

I also use Gmail and haven't encountered the duplicate message issue in
quite a long time.

+1 on the reply-to idea.  That would represent a really easy fix, I think.

--Kris