Everything

php

Home » Project » Newsgroups » php.internals » sync complete »

sync complete

php.internals

Greg Beaver

21 years ago

Hi,

I just synced php-src/pear (PHP_5_0/PHP_5_1/PHP_4_4) with pear-core
(PEAR_1_3).  May god bring the day when this is no longer necessary
sooner rather than later.

Greg

Rasmus Lerdorf

21 years ago

Greg Beaver wrote:

> I just synced php-src/pear (PHP_5_0/PHP_5_1/PHP_4_4) with pear-core
> (PEAR_1_3).  May god bring the day when this is no longer necessary
> sooner rather than later.

We'll get there.  But we can't kill the 5.0 tree until we have a 5.1
release.

-Rasmus

Zeev Suraski

21 years ago

At 01:23 23/08/2005, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:

>Greg Beaver wrote:
> > I just synced php-src/pear (PHP_5_0/PHP_5_1/PHP_4_4) with pear-core
> > (PEAR_1_3).  May god bring the day when this is no longer necessary
> > sooner rather than later.
>
>We'll get there.  But we can't kill the 5.0 tree until we have a 5.1
>release.

I don't see the 5.0 (or 4.4) trees dying anytime in the foreseeable
future.  May God bring the day when we no longer have to support security
issues / major bugs in production releases :)

Zeev

Lukas Smith

21 years ago

Zeev Suraski wrote:

> At 01:23 23/08/2005, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
>
>> Greg Beaver wrote:
>> > I just synced php-src/pear (PHP_5_0/PHP_5_1/PHP_4_4) with pear-core
>> > (PEAR_1_3).  May god bring the day when this is no longer necessary
>> > sooner rather than later.
>>
>> We'll get there.  But we can't kill the 5.0 tree until we have a 5.1
>> release.
>
>
> I don't see the 5.0 (or 4.4) trees dying anytime in the foreseeable
> future.  May God bring the day when we no longer have to support
> security issues / major bugs in production releases :)

Well I was expecting 5.0.x to immediatly cease once 5.1.0 is out? As for
PHP 4.x I would expect that one to end sometimes in the first part of
next year. I know roadmaps are not the PHP-style, but I think a somewhat
clear statement on php.net on this would help alot of people make more
educated planning decisions.

regards,
Lukas

Derick Rethans

21 years ago

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Lukas Smith wrote:

> As for PHP 4.x I would expect that one to end sometimes in the first
> part of next year.

Heh, no way :)

regards,
Derick

--
Derick Rethans
http://derickrethans.nl | http://ez.no | http://xdebug.org

Lester Caine

21 years ago

Derick Rethans wrote:

>>As for PHP 4.x I would expect that one to end sometimes in the first
>>part of next year.
>
> Heh, no way :)

It would be nice if updates to PHP4 tree did not introduce changes that
require all backwards compatible PHP5 code to be re-tested with PHP4 and
changes made!
People are switching to PHP4.4 from PHP4.3 and complaining about broken
code - but those of us who *ARE* using PHP5 do not have the hardware to
do regression testing on OLD versions ;)

--
Lester Caine
-----------------------------
L.S.Caine Electronic Services

Derick Rethans

21 years ago

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Lester Caine wrote:

> People are switching to PHP4.4 from PHP4.3 and complaining about broken code -

Yes, they should be, as *their* code was broken.

Derick

Derick Rethans

21 years ago

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Zeev Suraski wrote:

> At 01:23 23/08/2005, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> >Greg Beaver wrote:
> > > I just synced php-src/pear (PHP_5_0/PHP_5_1/PHP_4_4) with pear-core
> > > (PEAR_1_3).  May god bring the day when this is no longer necessary
> > > sooner rather than later.
> >
> >We'll get there.  But we can't kill the 5.0 tree until we have a 5.1
> >release.
>
> I don't see the 5.0 (or 4.4) trees dying anytime in the foreseeable future.
> May God bring the day when we no longer have to support security issues /
> major bugs in production releases :)

We should definitely get rid of the 5.0 branch when we release 5.1.0, as
having to deal with 4 branches is a little bit too much.

regards,
Derick

Rasmus Lerdorf

21 years ago

Zeev Suraski wrote:

> At 01:23 23/08/2005, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
>
>> Greg Beaver wrote:
>> > I just synced php-src/pear (PHP_5_0/PHP_5_1/PHP_4_4) with pear-core
>> > (PEAR_1_3).  May god bring the day when this is no longer necessary
>> > sooner rather than later.
>>
>> We'll get there.  But we can't kill the 5.0 tree until we have a 5.1
>> release.
>
>
> I don't see the 5.0 (or 4.4) trees dying anytime in the foreseeable
> future.  May God bring the day when we no longer have to support
> security issues / major bugs in production releases :)

I agree 4.4.x will live a long time due to the installed base and BC
problems going from 4 to 5.  But I think 5.0 can go away once we get a
couple of releases into 5.1.x.  The 5.0 installed base is small and the
5.0 to 5.1 migration is not difficult.

-Rasmus

Zeev Suraski

21 years ago

At 11:00 23/08/2005, Derick Rethans wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Zeev Suraski wrote:
>
> > At 01:23 23/08/2005, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> > >Greg Beaver wrote:
> > > > I just synced php-src/pear (PHP_5_0/PHP_5_1/PHP_4_4) with pear-core
> > > > (PEAR_1_3).  May god bring the day when this is no longer necessary
> > > > sooner rather than later.
> > >
> > >We'll get there.  But we can't kill the 5.0 tree until we have a 5.1
> > >release.
> >
> > I don't see the 5.0 (or 4.4) trees dying anytime in the foreseeable future.
> > May God bring the day when we no longer have to support security issues /
> > major bugs in production releases :)
>
>We should definitely get rid of the 5.0 branch when we release 5.1.0, as
>having to deal with 4 branches is a little bit too much.

Umm, that's not exactly an option, not before 5.1 proves itself stable (as
far as architecture goes - the changes between 5.0 and 5.1 are as
substantial as the changes between 4.x and 5.0 were).  PHP 5.0 is deployed
on roughly 5% of the userbase, including most of the new users in the last
year.  We definitely can't get rid of the branch anytime soon (nor do I see
any motivation to do it ever), and we'll have to maintain it with security
fixes for some time.
We'll have to maintain 4.x security fixes for as long as necessary, which
is probably going to be *long*.

Zeev

Lukas Smith

21 years ago

Zeev Suraski wrote:

> Umm, that's not exactly an option, not before 5.1 proves itself stable
> (as far as architecture goes - the changes between 5.0 and 5.1 are as
> substantial as the changes between 4.x and 5.0 were).  PHP 5.0 is
> deployed on roughly 5% of the userbase, including most of the new users
> in the last year.  We definitely can't get rid of the branch anytime
> soon (nor do I see any motivation to do it ever), and we'll have to
> maintain it with security fixes for some time.

I have one more question. You say "security fixes". Did you
intentionally omit (serious) bug fixes?

I think limiting ourselves to security fixes in 5.0.x once 5.1.x seems
like the sensible thing to do with our limited ressources.

Also note that some bug fixes are already being limited to 5.1.x at this
point, like the custom streams bug I brought up recently on this list.
(note: I am not trying to get on Wez's case on this bug, I understand
the reasoning of only fixing this in 5.1.x. I just want to make sure we
are all on the same page as to the development roadmap ..).

The same should apply to 4.x at a later date.

regards,
Lukas

Zeev Suraski

21 years ago

At 11:44 23/08/2005, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:

>I agree 4.4.x will live a long time due to the installed base and BC
>problems going from 4 to 5.  But I think 5.0 can go away once we get a
>couple of releases into 5.1.x.  The 5.0 installed base is small and the
>5.0 to 5.1 migration is not difficult.

It's small percentage wise, but since we're dealing with PHP here, it's
pretty huge absolute number wise (almost 200,000 servers as of August 1st),
and that's the number we should care about.  By the way, considering the
amount of legacy PHP 4 systems (which aren't going to upgrade to 5.1 or 6
or whatever we come up with), as well as the huge number of systems that
come with PHP 4 preinstalled or otherwise unused (hosting) - the real
percentage of PHP 5 is probably higher, and the 200,000 figure is probably
much more meaningful than the X million servers that PHP 4 has today.

Look, I take no joy at committing to 4 branches any more than anybody else,
but let's be realistic here.  The branch isn't going anywhere, and 5.0,
which was the best PHP version we offered as of mid 2004, will have to be
supported for critical fixes for quite some time.

Zeev

Derick Rethans

21 years ago

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Zeev Suraski wrote:

> Look, I take no joy at committing to 4 branches any more than anybody else,
> but let's be realistic here.  The branch isn't going anywhere, and 5.0, which
> was the best PHP version we offered as of mid 2004, will have to be supported
> for critical fixes for quite some time.

It all depends on how we define a critical fix.

Derick

Edin Kadribasic

21 years ago

Zeev Suraski wrote:

> Look, I take no joy at committing to 4 branches any more than anybody
> else, but let's be realistic here.  The branch isn't going anywhere, and
> 5.0, which was the best PHP version we offered as of mid 2004, will have
> to be supported for critical fixes for quite some time.

We should just make sure that those really are critical fixes. I hope
that our luck holds and that we never have to release 4.4.2 and 5.0.6.

Edin

Zeev Suraski

21 years ago

At 14:05 23/08/2005, Edin Kadribasic wrote:

>Zeev Suraski wrote:
> > Look, I take no joy at committing to 4 branches any more than anybody
> > else, but let's be realistic here.  The branch isn't going anywhere, and
> > 5.0, which was the best PHP version we offered as of mid 2004, will have
> > to be supported for critical fixes for quite some time.
>
>We should just make sure that those really are critical fixes. I hope
>that our luck holds and that we never have to release 4.4.2 and 5.0.6.

I hope that would be true regardless of having to support 4.4.x and 5.0.x :)

Zeev

Andi Gutmans

21 years ago

Likelihood is that we will have to release new versions of PHP 5.0
due to security issues. That said, I don't think we need to maintain
it far beyond that unless there's something exceptional.

Andi