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AW: Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps outthere)

php.internals

Matthias Pigulla

20 years ago
> I didn't say that my code is more important, but if we don't > get the date class now, we will get it in 5.1.1 and then > break your code - so that doesn't really matter. THe only > correct solution is to start prefixing the pear date class, > as that needs to be done in the long run anyway.
Derick, this is not only about the PEAR date class but about pretty much every larger PHP codebase/project. You don't seem to understand the impact.
> No no, the core reserves the right to name whatever they > want, it's the userland code that is responsible for > prefixing their classes.
Actually I just decided to work through my 100,000 lines of code and rename every class; for the sake of forwards compatibility, I'll generate GUIDs for each class and keep a mapping table on my desktop. Oh, and while I'm at it, I'll switch over to some other language as well. -mp.

Derick Rethans

20 years ago
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005, Matthias Pigulla wrote:
> > > I didn't say that my code is more important, but if we don't > > get the date class now, we will get it in 5.1.1 and then > > break your code - so that doesn't really matter. THe only > > correct solution is to start prefixing the pear date class, > > as that needs to be done in the long run anyway. > > Derick, this is not only about the PEAR date class but about pretty much > every larger PHP codebase/project. You don't seem to understand the > impact.
Yes, I do see that. Read my other mails again. (afaik one to Sascha) regards, Derick
-- Derick Rethans http://derickrethans.nl | http://ez.no | http://xdebug.org

Marcus Börger

20 years ago
Hello Matthias, i think you didn't understand the whole point here. Naming something after an every day word just like 'Date' is like screaming for problems in bigger scenarios. It is a beginners mistake to not prefix such stuff. And if you weren't in a big project - well then simply rename your few hundred lines of code. Use some nice tools like Ultraedit since your a windows user the renaming is only a few clicks a way. marcus Friday, November 25, 2005, 12:39:45 PM, you wrote:
>> I didn't say that my code is more important, but if we don't >> get the date class now, we will get it in 5.1.1 and then >> break your code - so that doesn't really matter. THe only >> correct solution is to start prefixing the pear date class, >> as that needs to be done in the long run anyway.
> Derick, this is not only about the PEAR date class but about pretty much > every larger PHP codebase/project. You don't seem to understand the > impact.
>> No no, the core reserves the right to name whatever they >> want, it's the userland code that is responsible for >> prefixing their classes.
> Actually I just decided to work through my 100,000 lines of code and > rename every class; for the sake of forwards compatibility, I'll > generate GUIDs for each class and keep a mapping table on my desktop. > Oh, and while I'm at it, I'll switch over to some other language as > well.
> -mp.
> -- > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Best regards, Marcus

Martin Jansen

20 years ago
On Fri Nov 25, 2005 at 09:1028PM +0100, Marcus Boerger wrote:
> i think you didn't understand the whole point here. Naming something > after an every day word just like 'Date' is like screaming for problems in > bigger scenarios. It is a beginners mistake to not prefix such stuff.
Assuming this is correct, then not only userland code should use proper prefixes, but also the PHP language core should do so, no? Speaking of this, I like Greg's suggestion about prefixing all internal classes with PHP_. While there are certainly classes out there that are prefixed with it, we could tell developers that starting with e.g. PHP 6 the PHP_* class scope is reserved for the language core and must not be used for any other purpose. - Martin

Ron Korving

20 years ago
> Speaking of this, I like Greg's suggestion about prefixing all internal > classes with PHP_. While there are certainly classes out there that are > prefixed with it, we could tell developers that starting with e.g. PHP 6 > the PHP_* class scope is reserved for the language core and must not be > used for any other purpose. > > - Martin
Why would you, if you have namespaces? Ron

Martin Jansen

20 years ago
On Sat Nov 26, 2005 at 09:5522AM +0100, Ron Korving wrote:
> > Speaking of this, I like Greg's suggestion about prefixing all internal > > classes with PHP_. While there are certainly classes out there that are > > prefixed with it, we could tell developers that starting with e.g. PHP 6 > > the PHP_* class scope is reserved for the language core and must not be > > used for any other purpose. > > Why would you, if you have namespaces?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the impression that despite Jessie's patch and Marcus' competence in all things C people are still unsure if namespaces will make it into PHP 6. Thus having an alternative strategy at hand seems wise. Best, - Martin

Marcus Börger

20 years ago
Hello Martin, the funny thing here is that obviously we cannot prefix things we have right now. Using namepsaces we would be free to enforce namespaces upon everyhting that's been built in and simply provide import. And if we really wanted to we could also have a "zend.ze1_compatibility_mode" like ini setting to import anything to the global space and voila - the php 6 code writers can go without and those who want to use php 5 stuff can easily do so. There won't be aproblem for namespaces users when imporint things to the global space. marcus Saturday, November 26, 2005, 10:12:56 AM, you wrote:
> On Sat Nov 26, 2005 at 09:5522AM +0100, Ron Korving wrote: >> > Speaking of this, I like Greg's suggestion about prefixing all internal >> > classes with PHP_. While there are certainly classes out there that are >> > prefixed with it, we could tell developers that starting with e.g. PHP 6 >> > the PHP_* class scope is reserved for the language core and must not be >> > used for any other purpose. >> >> Why would you, if you have namespaces?
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the impression that despite Jessie's > patch and Marcus' competence in all things C people are still unsure if > namespaces will make it into PHP 6. Thus having an alternative strategy > at hand seems wise.
> Best, > - Martin
Best regards, Marcus